Wow this comment section is fully showing the thesis of this piece. Men really don't like Sabrina Carpenter. Especially when they do it in the name of feminism, the misogyny really jumps out.
There's a contract that wannabe celebrities make with Pop Culture. They are allowed to remain celebrities as long as the Illusion is maintained. It's more obvious for women, but it applies to men as well. When the Illusion breaks, the ridiculousness becomes manifest. The pandering becomes painfully obvious. You can track every celebrity's fall from Zeitgeist Icon status to Nostalgia Act starting from the moment the Illusion broke. Sabrina Carpenter's agreement with Pop Culture was that she was going to be a hyper-sexualized "edgy" babygirl. As long as she didn't rock the boat, she'd have been able to maintain what she'd started. But this type of persona never lasts. It helps if you're truly a generational talent, like Madonna, but generally, the Lady Gagas, the Katy Perrys, the Shakira's of the world all hit that moment where the Illusion wears off and what they are doing comes across as desperate and try-hard. Usually it's because the males have moved on to younger wannabes, and the female fans have realized how silly it is to still be doing those same antics at that age (which could be as ancient as 25). It's even more pronounced with boy bands. They make a contract with Pop Culture that they will appeal to 13-year-old girls. When those girls age out of it, the Illusion breaks, and after a fifteen-year break, the boy bands are able to reunite for the nostalgia tours. No one wants to hear their new music. No one cares about anything they are currently doing. None of the adult women are fantasizing about the members of the boy bands in quite the same way they were 20 years earlier. When the Illusion breaks, the contract with Pop Culture becomes void.
It's why I stand utterly amazed and in awe of Taylor Swift. I can't stand her music and have no interest in her as an artist or celebrity, but here she is, twenty years on, as popular as ever, if not growing. HER contract with Pop Culture was never a hyper-sexualized jailbait male gaze, female gaze or gay gaze. Her contract was that she was going to make highly personal mainstream songs. And as such, the Illusion hasn't broken yet. She might be the first celebrity to maintain the Illusion for an entire career. Not true. Let's add Tom Hanks to the list of lifelong celebrities that have yet to break the Illusion. Tom Cruise broke his original Illusion and had to craft an entirely new one, that of the "I do all my own stunts" celebrity. The Rock has broken his Illusion. Will Smith shattered his Illusion with one slap. I can't think of any other celebrities that are still riding on the Illusion that vaulted them to prominence. Being on a lucrative nostalgia tour doesn't count. J-Lo found out that she's no longer stadium-worthy. She'll have to regroup as a nostalgia act for smaller venues. She held onto the Illusion longer than most.
So I can't feel much pity for celebrities like Sabrina Carpenter who rose to fame because of the bargain they made with Pop Culture and are now feeling the backlash. She has allowed people to see behind the curtain. Now lets see how thoroughly the Illusion has been broken. Lots of comparisons made to Sidney Sweeney. She hasn't broken the Illusion yet. She has so far chosen the correct roles (on screen and in life) that allow her to maintain the suspension of disbelief we collectively tell ourselves about her. We know her particular brand of sexualization is an Illusion, males especially know this, we just currently choose to pretend that she is what she's currently selling. When the Illusion breaks we'll mock her for the obvious, desperate measures she's taking to stay "hot." When any celebrity presents what they are doing as any sort of "taking charge" by showing how edgy they can be, it is always cringey, even if it takes a while for the world to acknowledge that.
I think the issue is that she's not being sexy but being horny. Horny has always been considered cringe regardless of what ones gender is, so that's not a feminism issue. The strength of horny however is that it's relatable to many people (who are also horny). I'd argue that relatability is a more important aspect to getting popular in music than sexiness, which translates into attention but not necessarily sales. The whole trick then is packing the maximum amount of relatability while avoiding cringe. Most artists steer clear of cringe, preferring to play it cool instead. Sabrina seems to err on the side of cringe instead for whatever reason, and that's unusual for a successful pop artists because cringe has been heavily shunned since like the early 2000s. I suspect the cringe tolerance is opening up now because we just don't have much else going on and being cool all the time is creatively stifling.
When will people learn that the "male gaze" is a far greater threat in the minds of the women who overthink about it because it is an internalized force, an inward abyss that has been stereotyped and fantasized and living within oneself, like the ever watchful eye of God for the guilty catholic.
Due to women and men being disconnected culturally, the inner motives of the opposite sex are grotesquely exaggerated, and that fantasized "male gaze" is what horrifies but also thrills some women, and is what they are trying to either escape or appeal to, but it is often disconnected from actual male desire.
What is more, even as young men are the least sexually aggressive, and most deferential than they have ever been (though that is already a trend in reverse), talk of the threat of male desire is at its apex. But for some (many, as this phenomenon is vastly underreported and taboo in feminist circles), the LACK of real toxic masculine behavior and dominance is missing and there is a desire for it to return. The rise of requests to be choked in bed, the intense desire to be submissive and have a man that takes control across a sea of passive, polite, politically correct young males, and the fantasy of performing for a voyeur. All things that live larger in the minds of young women than what they can find in real life.
One gets the sense the "male gaze" stuff is being acted out by someone like Sabrina for her own sexual gratification, not for a male audience. And you know what? There actually isn't anything wrong with that. Enjoying your own submission in a sexual way is more fulfilling than letting feminism or some other ideal repress what is a perfectly natural desire. In an interesting sense, many of these women are objectifying men, projecting the image of the strong, dominant masculine, in the masturbation theater of their minds. This, also, is perfectly natural and FAR more common and less "problematic" than pointy heads would like.
I think Sabrina is truly playing a character she finds fun and can act out her issues as a woman dating men in an exaggerated way with. I do think she’s camp. I think the fact that men don’t love her, but society sees her as catering to the male gaze is exactly the point. It’s not for them. It’s hyperbole. Honestly, it’s drag.
Great nuanced piece! (Although I agree with the comment reminding that males never liked female pop stars.)
I’d say that not only is her target audience ambiguous, but also the purpose of her curated “aesthetics” remains unclear. You could argue that artists aren’t necessarily like writers or filmmakers whose images and settings just serve a fixed goal or message—but I think for her, given the image she’s curating, it must be questioned.
Honestly, the persona she’s creating and her aesthetics remind me of literary contemporary pieces that create an entire aesthetic around their story just for the sake of the “aesthetic” and the imagery and not for something greater.
the impression I get is that some of her target audience (or at least those defending her) are people who enjoy things “for the vibes” and are hesitant to go deeper into things.
I think you are right, or that your first sentence is correct. But I don't really agree with your reasoning. I believe men don't "like" female artists (that much) is for the same reason that men don't (and never really did) embrace female authors. They are just not for us. Sure I read the first half of the first 50 shades... book, to see what the fuss was about. And as a teacher I had to read both the Harry Potter series and the Hunger games series, (and I needed 2,5 books by Robin Hobb before I understood what was "off". I was only familiar with "Robin" as a mans name.)
Same with female actors - No "actress" can bring me to the movies, but some "actors" still can.
One characteristic of a certain kind of man who posts on the internet is that he doesn’t like to be taken for a fool. So he will be contrarian to the point of idiocy - feeling that he is showing weakness and gullibility if he expresses a positive feeling about anything. He has to be negative.
The truth is that Ms Carpenter is a very sexy young woman - but “internet man” would rather cut off his wanking arm than admit that in a simple and straightforward way.
Also, having impersonated a woman on Second Life in the past, I would say that a lot of men like to make the first move. They want to be the one who decides whether somebody is sexy.
I’m heterosexual, but not a “regular guy” BTW - so I struggle to understand this. I’ve noticed it in other men.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking and ranting about to my friends. The fact that since Sabrina is liked or more for the female gaze, men have some problem with how she dresses and what she does ( they label her slutty), but Sidney Sweeney being sexual is the “right” way to act because men like her and how she looks. The fact that Sabrina getting “hate” because of her album cover when Sidney is being supported after selling her bath water is crazy. Loved this article so much⭐️
Happily married straight male Sabrina Carpenter fan here. She has a great voice, well written songs, and good stage performance. Much better than a lot of talentless autotune slop coming out of the music industry in the last 10 years.
I don’t care about the “political subtext” or what she means for “femininity”… if anything Sabrina has multiple songs insulting men overall (Manchild)… but don’t we all have politics fatigue after 2024? Why does EVERYTHING have to be put through the “lens of gender etc.” Yawwwn. She makes songs about coffee. Just enjoy it for what it is and STFU.
Similar to Billie Eilish. Most straight men either don’t pay attention to her, or - like me - enjoy the music and don’t overthink it.
Just want to show my support for this as it is one of the first takes on here about Sabrina that I have agreed with. Unfortunately, much of the discourse has been focused on what men think about her -- a symptom of how society still centers men. As you pointed out she her audience and who her artwork is aimed at is mainly women and queer people. I think it is important to consider this when critiquing her artwork instead of centering the opinions of men. Anyways, don't let the commenter's discourage you as I do believe a lot of them are missing the point you were trying to make!
Wow this comment section is fully showing the thesis of this piece. Men really don't like Sabrina Carpenter. Especially when they do it in the name of feminism, the misogyny really jumps out.
Not to say that you can't critique Sabrina Carpenter through a feminist lens, but these takes aren't it.
There's a contract that wannabe celebrities make with Pop Culture. They are allowed to remain celebrities as long as the Illusion is maintained. It's more obvious for women, but it applies to men as well. When the Illusion breaks, the ridiculousness becomes manifest. The pandering becomes painfully obvious. You can track every celebrity's fall from Zeitgeist Icon status to Nostalgia Act starting from the moment the Illusion broke. Sabrina Carpenter's agreement with Pop Culture was that she was going to be a hyper-sexualized "edgy" babygirl. As long as she didn't rock the boat, she'd have been able to maintain what she'd started. But this type of persona never lasts. It helps if you're truly a generational talent, like Madonna, but generally, the Lady Gagas, the Katy Perrys, the Shakira's of the world all hit that moment where the Illusion wears off and what they are doing comes across as desperate and try-hard. Usually it's because the males have moved on to younger wannabes, and the female fans have realized how silly it is to still be doing those same antics at that age (which could be as ancient as 25). It's even more pronounced with boy bands. They make a contract with Pop Culture that they will appeal to 13-year-old girls. When those girls age out of it, the Illusion breaks, and after a fifteen-year break, the boy bands are able to reunite for the nostalgia tours. No one wants to hear their new music. No one cares about anything they are currently doing. None of the adult women are fantasizing about the members of the boy bands in quite the same way they were 20 years earlier. When the Illusion breaks, the contract with Pop Culture becomes void.
It's why I stand utterly amazed and in awe of Taylor Swift. I can't stand her music and have no interest in her as an artist or celebrity, but here she is, twenty years on, as popular as ever, if not growing. HER contract with Pop Culture was never a hyper-sexualized jailbait male gaze, female gaze or gay gaze. Her contract was that she was going to make highly personal mainstream songs. And as such, the Illusion hasn't broken yet. She might be the first celebrity to maintain the Illusion for an entire career. Not true. Let's add Tom Hanks to the list of lifelong celebrities that have yet to break the Illusion. Tom Cruise broke his original Illusion and had to craft an entirely new one, that of the "I do all my own stunts" celebrity. The Rock has broken his Illusion. Will Smith shattered his Illusion with one slap. I can't think of any other celebrities that are still riding on the Illusion that vaulted them to prominence. Being on a lucrative nostalgia tour doesn't count. J-Lo found out that she's no longer stadium-worthy. She'll have to regroup as a nostalgia act for smaller venues. She held onto the Illusion longer than most.
So I can't feel much pity for celebrities like Sabrina Carpenter who rose to fame because of the bargain they made with Pop Culture and are now feeling the backlash. She has allowed people to see behind the curtain. Now lets see how thoroughly the Illusion has been broken. Lots of comparisons made to Sidney Sweeney. She hasn't broken the Illusion yet. She has so far chosen the correct roles (on screen and in life) that allow her to maintain the suspension of disbelief we collectively tell ourselves about her. We know her particular brand of sexualization is an Illusion, males especially know this, we just currently choose to pretend that she is what she's currently selling. When the Illusion breaks we'll mock her for the obvious, desperate measures she's taking to stay "hot." When any celebrity presents what they are doing as any sort of "taking charge" by showing how edgy they can be, it is always cringey, even if it takes a while for the world to acknowledge that.
Well that just makes me like her more
I think the issue is that she's not being sexy but being horny. Horny has always been considered cringe regardless of what ones gender is, so that's not a feminism issue. The strength of horny however is that it's relatable to many people (who are also horny). I'd argue that relatability is a more important aspect to getting popular in music than sexiness, which translates into attention but not necessarily sales. The whole trick then is packing the maximum amount of relatability while avoiding cringe. Most artists steer clear of cringe, preferring to play it cool instead. Sabrina seems to err on the side of cringe instead for whatever reason, and that's unusual for a successful pop artists because cringe has been heavily shunned since like the early 2000s. I suspect the cringe tolerance is opening up now because we just don't have much else going on and being cool all the time is creatively stifling.
When will people learn that the "male gaze" is a far greater threat in the minds of the women who overthink about it because it is an internalized force, an inward abyss that has been stereotyped and fantasized and living within oneself, like the ever watchful eye of God for the guilty catholic.
Due to women and men being disconnected culturally, the inner motives of the opposite sex are grotesquely exaggerated, and that fantasized "male gaze" is what horrifies but also thrills some women, and is what they are trying to either escape or appeal to, but it is often disconnected from actual male desire.
What is more, even as young men are the least sexually aggressive, and most deferential than they have ever been (though that is already a trend in reverse), talk of the threat of male desire is at its apex. But for some (many, as this phenomenon is vastly underreported and taboo in feminist circles), the LACK of real toxic masculine behavior and dominance is missing and there is a desire for it to return. The rise of requests to be choked in bed, the intense desire to be submissive and have a man that takes control across a sea of passive, polite, politically correct young males, and the fantasy of performing for a voyeur. All things that live larger in the minds of young women than what they can find in real life.
One gets the sense the "male gaze" stuff is being acted out by someone like Sabrina for her own sexual gratification, not for a male audience. And you know what? There actually isn't anything wrong with that. Enjoying your own submission in a sexual way is more fulfilling than letting feminism or some other ideal repress what is a perfectly natural desire. In an interesting sense, many of these women are objectifying men, projecting the image of the strong, dominant masculine, in the masturbation theater of their minds. This, also, is perfectly natural and FAR more common and less "problematic" than pointy heads would like.
I think Sabrina is truly playing a character she finds fun and can act out her issues as a woman dating men in an exaggerated way with. I do think she’s camp. I think the fact that men don’t love her, but society sees her as catering to the male gaze is exactly the point. It’s not for them. It’s hyperbole. Honestly, it’s drag.
Yes it's not for nothing that the single that started this turn in her music (nonsense), she is literally doing drag in the music video.
Great nuanced piece! (Although I agree with the comment reminding that males never liked female pop stars.)
I’d say that not only is her target audience ambiguous, but also the purpose of her curated “aesthetics” remains unclear. You could argue that artists aren’t necessarily like writers or filmmakers whose images and settings just serve a fixed goal or message—but I think for her, given the image she’s curating, it must be questioned.
Honestly, the persona she’s creating and her aesthetics remind me of literary contemporary pieces that create an entire aesthetic around their story just for the sake of the “aesthetic” and the imagery and not for something greater.
the impression I get is that some of her target audience (or at least those defending her) are people who enjoy things “for the vibes” and are hesitant to go deeper into things.
I don't know or care about celebrities. Please commit suicide.
I think you are right, or that your first sentence is correct. But I don't really agree with your reasoning. I believe men don't "like" female artists (that much) is for the same reason that men don't (and never really did) embrace female authors. They are just not for us. Sure I read the first half of the first 50 shades... book, to see what the fuss was about. And as a teacher I had to read both the Harry Potter series and the Hunger games series, (and I needed 2,5 books by Robin Hobb before I understood what was "off". I was only familiar with "Robin" as a mans name.)
Same with female actors - No "actress" can bring me to the movies, but some "actors" still can.
What a relief to know that it’s both women AND men who hate women!
One characteristic of a certain kind of man who posts on the internet is that he doesn’t like to be taken for a fool. So he will be contrarian to the point of idiocy - feeling that he is showing weakness and gullibility if he expresses a positive feeling about anything. He has to be negative.
The truth is that Ms Carpenter is a very sexy young woman - but “internet man” would rather cut off his wanking arm than admit that in a simple and straightforward way.
Also, having impersonated a woman on Second Life in the past, I would say that a lot of men like to make the first move. They want to be the one who decides whether somebody is sexy.
I’m heterosexual, but not a “regular guy” BTW - so I struggle to understand this. I’ve noticed it in other men.
Now being disgusted by the over-sexualizing of a teenage girl is misogynstic. We are living in strange times.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking and ranting about to my friends. The fact that since Sabrina is liked or more for the female gaze, men have some problem with how she dresses and what she does ( they label her slutty), but Sidney Sweeney being sexual is the “right” way to act because men like her and how she looks. The fact that Sabrina getting “hate” because of her album cover when Sidney is being supported after selling her bath water is crazy. Loved this article so much⭐️
Why are we not talking about Brian Wilson instead of this idiot ??
Happily married straight male Sabrina Carpenter fan here. She has a great voice, well written songs, and good stage performance. Much better than a lot of talentless autotune slop coming out of the music industry in the last 10 years.
I don’t care about the “political subtext” or what she means for “femininity”… if anything Sabrina has multiple songs insulting men overall (Manchild)… but don’t we all have politics fatigue after 2024? Why does EVERYTHING have to be put through the “lens of gender etc.” Yawwwn. She makes songs about coffee. Just enjoy it for what it is and STFU.
Similar to Billie Eilish. Most straight men either don’t pay attention to her, or - like me - enjoy the music and don’t overthink it.
Just want to show my support for this as it is one of the first takes on here about Sabrina that I have agreed with. Unfortunately, much of the discourse has been focused on what men think about her -- a symptom of how society still centers men. As you pointed out she her audience and who her artwork is aimed at is mainly women and queer people. I think it is important to consider this when critiquing her artwork instead of centering the opinions of men. Anyways, don't let the commenter's discourage you as I do believe a lot of them are missing the point you were trying to make!